Re: Fuck: SegWit, LN, Blockstream, Core, Adam Back, and GMazwell
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
Legendary Online
Activity: 1652
SegWit & LN are all about removing Transactions Offchain, meaning the miner will see reduced income from transaction fees, until the point LN/Banking Cartels Bankrupt the BTC miners and take over completely.
That is a problem, one of the many, i have with LN. Taking TF from miners would destabilise the maintenance of the network as altruism isn’t going to be enough. The point of TF is to replace POW rewards in 20ish years time. I do not get why everyone is so up for LN. Do people really understand it?
TF are not a problem or a concern today. pools dont need them.
so i see no reason at all to be pushing for 600% ‘bonus’ growth in under a year EG no need for year block txcap fee total 2016 01mb 2200 $220.00(10c/tx) 2017 01mb 2200 $1320.00(60c/tx)
by actually growing the blockspace we can increase bitcoins utility. (i am not talking about gigabytes by midnight, im talking natural growth within capability of nodes over time. (productive slow natural growth)
this will allow instead of 2200 TF payers paying 6x this year as they did last year. but 4400 paying the same this year as last year, yet giving pools double the bonus.
remember tech will be very different in decades and the block reward dozen 100% disappear for a century. so the need for fee’s is not essential now. the flip between reward(income):fee(bonus).. to reward(bonus):fee(income) wont happen in the next couple years. but sometime between a couple DECADES to a century.
I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER. Don’t take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
This whole ASICBoost bullshit is yet another distraction from Blockstream/Core keeping the blocksize at 1M and screwing everyone else over.
ASICBoost was out of the bag ages ago, patents don’t stop any nameless mining farm from building their own ASICBoost rigs. If Core don’t like ASICBoost, they should just fix the damn code instead of crying about it every year.
The used way too much tech jargon, and when it comes to implementations all you get is “We will not discuss the optimal solution in this paper, but further information can be provided by the author on request.”
So a year later half the devs still don’t know how it works, if the devs can’t even figure it out, it’ll be even worse for users, so you end up with all these trolls trying to get away with making the most ridiculous statements, creating new enemy-of-the-week trying to distract people from Blockstream/Core’s own fuck ups.
ASICBoost is: 1.
2. It is possible because sha256 processes data in 64 bytes chunks, but the header is 80 bytes long.
3. So the block header is split into 2 chunks when sha256 computes its hash.
4. The merkle root inside the block header, spans over the position that sha256 split the chunks.
5. The merkle root is 32 bytes, 28 bytes of it (head) ended up in the first chunk, 4 bytes of it (tail) ended up in the 2nd chunk.
6. The second chunk has 16 bytes of data and 48 bytes of padding.
7. Of the 16 bytes of the data in the second chunk, 4bytes is the merkle root tail, the other 12 bytes are time/difficulty/nonce, all known values by the miner.
8. That means if a miner can generate a bunch of hash with the same last 4 bytes, then the entire 2nd chunk, all 16+48 bytes of it becomes a fixed known value.
9. A fixed value means it can be reused, this allows miners to simplify the sha256 mining loop, so that it only uses 3 sha256 operations instead of 4 and increase efficiency.
10. The more ‘hash with the same last 4 bytes’ a miner can generate, the more times they can use the short cut, the more performance gain, this process is called ‘finding partial hash collision’.
11. To generate these partial hash collisions, miners have to keep changing the data on the block then get a new hash at high speed, but different ways have different costs, only a few of them is worth while.
12. One of the fastest way to find hash collisions is to keep changing the extranonce in the coinbase, at the same time keep reordering tx in the block. This modifies both side of the merkle tree parallelly and allow further math shortcuts to take place.
13. Changing the coinbase and reordering tx is computationally costly, it is only worthwhile if you can do both at the same time without affecting each other.
14. In regular bitcoin, modifying tx changes the right side of the merkle tree, and modifying the coinbase changes the left side of the merkle tree, the coinbase on the left doesn’t care what happens to the tx on the right, and vice versa. There are no double overhead modifying data on any side, so in the end you can gain a 20% advantage with ASICBoost.
15. But if the coinbase merkle root includes the hash of all the tx, then ASICBoost is no longer worth the effort, in fact it’d make mining slower, because now every time you reorder the tx, the coinbase also changes, and you have to use an extra 10 or so operations to update the left side of the merkle tree. That 20% advantage is gone.
16. This is what happens in BIP-141 SegWit, the coinbase has a new merkle root call the ‘witness root hash’, that includes all regular and side tx. This makes the reordering tx also updates the coinbase, miners have to run extra operations for each reordering, this double overhead makes it too costly to use ASICBoost.
17. Extension Block is base on BIP-141, they have the same commitment structure, so Extension Block is immune to ASICBoost.
18. If anyone is using ASICBoost, the ‘overt’ method involves modifying block header data directly, so you’ll see strange version numbers and other weird data, the ‘covert’ method involves reordering of tx, or empty blocks, these are also obvious.
19. If there is a new way to use ASICBoost without obvious side effects, then it’s just another valid optimization on generating hash, optimization happens all the time.
20. The excuse of ASICBoost patent may lead to centralization is also silly, there are so many patent involved with mining already, from chip to connectors to cooling, everywhere you look there is a patent. Mining is so competitive, every year there are a bunch of new optimizations with a new bunch of patents. The biggest problem with ASICBoost is once it’s used, it’ll leave obvious patterns in the blockchain, the anomalies will be spotted very quickly.
That would be subjective. If one decide the objective of POW is to hash fully and whoever gets it first wins then fair do – subjective. If one decide the objective of POW is to hash fully and a miner isn’t hashing fully, (A programming short cut of using 3 sha256 operations instead of 4 when mining a block hash.) then one may decide that the miner is cheating based on a principle and not regard it as optimisation – subjective.
Objective is better than subjective. You can see way the debates goes on and on. There are two subjectives to one objective. Thus two opinions. Of course people may decide there are more opinions but i am just mentioning 2. Who is right and who is wrong – neither.
That is a problem, one of the many, i have with LN. Taking TF from miners would destabilise the maintenance of the network as altruism isn’t going to be enough. The point of TF is to replace POW rewards in 20ish years time. I do not get why everyone is so up for LN. Do people really understand it?
There’s been some weird ideas that if Lightning takes off, bitcoin miners might not make money from fees any more. Those of us involved are scratching our heads at this, but lets work it out:
TL;DR: The bitcoin userbase is tiny. If we finally make bitcoin catch on for daily usage, miners will be just fine…
I’m not sure I really understand LN. From what I can work out, it is a trustless system which requires trust to operate. As soon as the participants do not trust each other, they start a cascade of closing channels. Sounds like something of an Oxymoron. Perhaps I should try to understand it better.
There is no trust in the operation of it or a worry of cascading closing channels. It’s not an oxymoron, but if you don’t know much about it, then it might appear to be so.
Legendary Online
Activity: 1050
SegWit & LN are all about removing Transactions Offchain, meaning the miner will see reduced income from transaction fees, until the point LN/Banking Cartels Bankrupt the BTC miners and take over completely.
That is a problem, one of the many, i have with LN. Taking TF from miners would destabilise the maintenance of the network as altruism isn’t going to be enough. The point of TF is to replace POW rewards in 20ish years time. I do not get why everyone is so up for LN. Do people really understand it?
I’m not sure I really understand LN. From what I can work out, it is a trustless system which requires trust to operate. As soon as the participants do not trust each other, they start a cascade of closing channels. Sounds like something of an Oxymoron. Perhaps I should try to understand it better.
IMO, the main problem with LN is that its somewhat advertised as ‘anyone can send to anyone else in the world by interconnected channels’. However, no one has been able to explain yet (afaik) how that will be achieved using a mesh-like topology with sensible economics. Instead, its looking like a network of “hubs”.
This wouldn’t be a problem if people had free choice to use off chain vs on chain because if people felt the hubs got to be too expensive or too regulated, they could choose to stop using them.
Blockstream wants on-chain to be expensive. They want you to use the LN.
They will say “we know what’s good for you. The network could centralize if nodes get too expensive, so we need to restrict the blocksize.” The part they don’t tell you is how you could end up using big centralized hubs, and that the more expensive on chain is, the more centralized it will be.
SegWit & LN are all about removing Transactions Offchain, meaning the miner will see reduced income from transaction fees, until the point LN/Banking Cartels Bankrupt the BTC miners and take over completely.
That is a problem, one of the many, i have with LN. Taking TF from miners would destabilise the maintenance of the network as altruism isn’t going to be enough. The point of TF is to replace POW rewards in 20ish years time. I do not get why everyone is so up for LN. Do people really understand it?
TF are not a problem or a concern today. pools dont need them.
so i see no reason at all to be pushing for 600% ‘bonus’ growth in under a year EG no need for year block txcap fee total 2016 01mb 2200 $220.00(10c/tx) 2017 01mb 2200 $1320.00(60c/tx)
by actually growing the blockspace we can increase bitcoins utility. (i am not talking about gigabytes by midnight, im talking natural growth within capability of nodes over time. (productive slow natural growth)
this will allow instead of 2200 TF payers paying 6x this year as they did last year. but 4400 paying the same this year as last year, yet giving pools double the bonus.
remember tech will be very different in decades and the block reward dozen 100% disappear for a century. so the need for fee’s is not essential now. the flip between reward(income):fee(bonus).. to reward(bonus):fee(income) wont happen in the next couple years. but sometime between a couple DECADES to a century.
I agree with you. However more adoption also equals higher value of BTC thus higher TF, unless satoshi per transaction falls. What is obvious is the the blocksize need to increase. Surely 2mb for now, then the developers can get together and decide on a new proposal to increase scaling and capacity that will be acceptable to all (90%) users.
eToro Adds ZCash (ZEC) to Growing List of Altcoin Offerings Social trading and multi-asset brokerage company eToro has added ZCash (ZEC) to its extensive list of cryptocurrency offerings — bringing the total number of said […]
bitcoin’s Maturity as ‘Digital Gold’ Could Easily Triple Its Market Cap, Claims Expert VanEck’s Gabor Gurbacs believes bitcoin’s upside is huge as traditional investors turn to ‘digital gold.’ bitcoin is ‘a de-risk asset’ The bitcoin […]